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Thread: Problems with H4198



  1. #1
    Tenderfoot
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    Problems with H4198

    I was wondering if anyone can help me out with a problem that Iíve been having with a 45-70 load. Iím loading 300gr. cast FP to about 1400-1500 fps as a plinker round for my Guide Gun (JM). My goal is for some 100 yard loads that shoot near the point of impact of my jacked loads. Iíve loaded with reddot and Unique with good results at 50 yards but with the factory sights I donít have enough adjustment to get them close to point of aim at 100.



    My problem is with H4198. Iíve used Hodgdonís cowboy action data of 30.0 to 35.5 grains and during 2 different sessions have gotten 2 squibs, one at 30.0 gr. (starting) and one at 34.5 gr. Each time Iíve been left with an action full of powder and a bullet lodged in the barrel. I thought it was bad primers, since all I got was a click. Fortunately thereís been no damage, but Iím not looking to push my luck.



    Iím not new to reloading but have never used this powder before. The loads all were firmly crimped. To be honest Iím a little disappointed that this hasn't worked out. The 34.5 gr. load hit at point of aim at 100 yards and the 3 groups that I fired were under 2 inches with the factory iron sights and show very little leading.



    So, if anyone has any ideas Iíd appreciate it. Iím open to suggestions of other powders that will give me a good 100 yard load with these 300 gr. FPs.


    Thanks,
    Bob

  2. #2
    Contributing Member
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    Hey Bob,

    Have shot quite a few 405gr cast bullets, with both of the 4198's. 28-32gr.

    Have never had a squib load with either of the 4198's.

    H 4198 is a great propellant for any jacketed bullet, in 45/70.

    Am phasing my stick powders out. And am working up some H 322 loads.

    Later, Mark
    Duty is the sublimest word in the English language. Every man should desire to do his duty, no man should desire to do less. Robert E Lee.

    Marlinitis Symptoms: More Daily!

    Active rescuer of Marlin Rifles, S&W revolvers, 1911's, Mil/Surplus rifles, shotguns.............

  3. #3
    Gun Wizard
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    Seems like you could get pretty close to your velocity goal with Trail Boss and that lightweight bullet. I run TB for all my plinkers now and H322 for all the hot loads.

    Just checked my TB data I got from their website and 16.5 gr will get you 1285 fps with the 300 gr cast bullet. TB is a very economical powder and that 16.5 gr will just about fill the case due to it's bulky-ness, so it's also very consistent...
    Last edited by Jonny V; 01-22-2013 at 11:42 PM. Reason: add info

  4. #4
    Gun Wizard
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    Although I will work up light loads to give people a starting point if they are purchasing my boolits but for me, I dont shoot light loads at all, If I wouldnt hunt with it I will not shoot it. Although I will make up light loads for the 1894 44 Mag for the wife.

    H322 and IMR 3031 are great powders for the 45-70 but I havent heard anything bad abough the H4198


    Doc
    "It Appears As Though My Hypocrisy Knows no bounds"




  5. #5
    Tinhorn
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    I see you crimped,maybe alittle harder.What diameter is your bullet,what does your expander measure?You should be about .004.Maybe you have a bad pound of powder.

  6. #6
    Sidewinder
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    Hi Ive had great luck with H 4198 in many cartridges from .218 to 45-70 in light reduced loads mostly without crimp and never had a problem, I have found it to get the best accuracy generally of any powder Ive triedfor my old lever guns and single shots It is usually my first choice in beginning load development. ( In my experience )It is consistant and not position sensitive with even half filled case,. I have tried dacron as a filler ,but havent used it in a few years. but no squibs in any Cal yet I also like Unique for light recoil loads, but dont always get the best accuracy. I will also experiment with TB It is very pleasant to shoot, but I havent had very good accuracy luck with it so far

    Phil

  7. #7
    Sidewinder
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    I have heard - but cannot provide direct anecdotal evidence - that IMR4198 likes to have a bit of pressure to work with. Looking at my various reloading manuals, this seems to be a possibility as the really light lead bullets in 45/70 don't have any recipe using it. And my Lymans does have a 330 grain lead cast with a starting load at 34gr - and that is a barely 12000 cup load for an antique rifle. They also show a jacketed 300 gr bullet load starting out with around 31 grains of IM4198 and 14,500 cup. While you may indeed have a sketchy can of powder - or perhaps some compromised primers - I might suggest that you may need to start a bit over 34 grains of powder, or maybe try a different powder with that light, easy-pushing lead bullet. I don't have any recipes for IMR-4198 with 45/70 bullets lighter than 300 grain(jacketed) or 330 grain(lead cast). IT is possible that in that large 45/70 case without alot to push against it isn't always igniting evenly due to very low pressure. It isn't a "magnum" powder, but I'm sure it has some lower limit for consistent burning.

    I do use IMR4198 in some of my 45/70 loads and it works quite well, but I generally use it in my loads with either 405 grn lead or the Remington 400 grain softpoint. I've found that with the REmington soft point and 34.0 grains of IMR4198 I can very closely duplicate the Remington green box 400grn factory load - chronos at 1360 FPS out of my 1895 with 22" tube. My most accurate loads (at present anyway) are with the 300 grn Hornady JHP and H322 powder - but they are up around 2100 FPS MV. I've had fun with 400 grain lead cast and trailboss too - though sight adjustment is a challenge - 13 grains of TrailBoss give me a subsonic, ~960FPS "plinker" , but it isn't very accurate for me
    Last edited by oldyankee2; 01-23-2013 at 01:04 AM.

  8. #8
    Wrangler
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    Trail Boss looks like the powder to use.

    I have shot the Hornady 300 grain bullets as slow as 800 FPS and have yet to see a squib and they are still stabilizing. They are very quiet from my suppressor (silencer) as well. They are a very fun plinking round.
    Team 45/70 member #512
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  9. #9
    Sidewinder
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    I've never used anything but H4198 in my guide gun and 100th anniversary 1895 and have never had a squib load except once when I fired a round I didn't put any H4198 in. I've loaded it down to 36 grains with a 300 jacketed bullet. I'm really enjoying the Unique and Trailboss these days though. Thanks to this forum when I'm out of H4198 I'm going to try the H322. That will be a while though since I don't have time to shoot a whole lot.

  10. #10
    Site Contributor Super Moderator
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    Problems with H4198

    I don't think it's the powder. I use IMR4198, granted different but not much, and had 3 squibs with it at 31.4gr under 405RNFP. All three were in the same batch with the same sleeve of primers. I pitched the rest of those primers. It has never happened again with any level of charge of IMR4198.

    When I think about the numbers, 3 out of 3,000, it doesn't seem like the powder. Probably the primers.
    BillyTee likes this.
    Jeff

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