I emailed Hodgdon asking about LVR powder loading data for the 307W. I thought you all might find the reply interesting:
Hodgdon SUPERFORMANCE and LEVERLUTION powders and data
First, it is necessary to explain these powders and where they came from. Hornady Manufacturing has a line of high performance ammunition they call “SUPERFORMANCE” and “LEVEREVOLUTION”. To achieve the high performance levels of this ammunition, Hornady uses many different blends of powder that exactly fit the needed pressure and velocity for each cartridge and/or bullet weight. Hodgdon Powder Company is bringing out just one of these blends in the SUPERFORMANCE line and one in the LEVEREVOLUTION line. The data is limited to just a few cartridges which perform to the SUPERFORMANCE or LEVEREVOLUTION level with these blends of powder. Hodgdon SUPERFORMANCE powder and LEVEREVOLUTION powder are not used in any other cartridges because the powder does not offer a level of performance better than other powders already on the market. The cartridges listed below are the only cartridges that SUPERFORMANCE and LEVEREVOLUTION are used for. There will be no further data with these powders in any application.
SUPERFORMANCE cartridges LEVERLUTION cartridges
243 Winchester 30-30
6mm Remington 308 MARLIN Express
243 WSSM 338 Marlin Express
25 WSSM 338 Federal
300 WSM 35 Remington
300 Ruger Compact Magnum
Data for Hodgdon SUPERFORMANCE and LEVEREVOLUTION can be found for these cartridges at www.hodgdon.com in the Reloading Data Center.
PDF of SUPERFORMANCE and LEVEREVOLUTION data here: http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/SuperLever.pdf
Hodgdon SUPERFORMANCE powder and Hodgdon LEVERLUTION powder will go on sale in the Spring of 2011.
That is an interesting reply for sure from Hornady, considering they are loading the SUPERFORMANCE powders in many more factory rounds than listed below. It looks like they've picked only their projected lowest volume sellers to supply powder and/or data for, but decide to keep the bigger cash-cows in house. I suspect handloaders will try out such a powder in more common rounds anyways (not me - too chicken, but some will undoubtedly experiment). According to the reply there are multiple blends of SUPERFORMANCE and the more mainstream rounds will not be as advantaged with the particular blend for sale, but in my loading experience a traditional powder for the cartridges listed is pretty good for the 30-06 as well.
I've always thought a ballistician would be an cool job!
As for the LEVEREVOLUTION, I guess nice for the 25-35 shooters...
Well, at least they are going to release some loads, even if it isn't what you are looking for.I emailed Hodgdon asking about LVR powder loading data for the 307W.
That said, at least they are releasing load info for a round that is similar to what you are wanting, that being .308 ME. I would expect that you could do a bit of extrapolating, using known data for similar powders between the 2 rounds to project approximate charges for the new powder. Then decrease that by about 10% and work your way up to what works in your rifle.
My question regards .30-30 using that new LVR powder. Are they going to release load data for just the 160 FTX bullet, or are they going to release load data for other bullets as well? Ya' know, more traditional 150s and 170s?
You betcha!I've always thought a ballistician would be an cool job!
Well, yeah, now that you mention it. It does look that way. Granted, there's nothing weird about .22-250 or .243 Win. And 6mm Rem is conventional enough, nothing strange about it. But the rest of them are newfangled, niche rounds. It seems like some of the more popular mainstream rounds would be appropriate given my idea of what its characteristics must be to perform well with the rounds listed. Is there something about the powder that is optimized to short, fat rounds? Why wouldn't it work well in longer, higher capacity cases? Even so, 6mm Rem isn't short/fat. What gives? Why no .270, .30-06, 7mm Rem Mag or .300 WM load data?That is an interesting reply for sure from Hornady, considering they are loading the SUPERFORMANCE powders in many more factory rounds than listed below. It looks like they've picked only their projected lowest volume sellers to supply powder and/or data for, but decide to keep the bigger cash-cows in house.
Then again, Hodgdon isn't the sole provider of loading info. I'd expect other houses -- like the bullet manufacturers -- to fill in the gaps. It'll just take a bit of time for them go get their hands on the powder and run it through their labs. Same thing with the LVR powder. I mean, no .308 Win data? No .223 data? Huh? If a powder is appropriate for high end .30-30, it is appropriate for .308 Win or .223, after all.
Therefore, you aren't going to release data on those cartridges? Lame. Why don't you give us the data anyway? Let us decide. After all, I just might want to load for multiple rounds and consider that powder for not only one of your preferred rounds but another rounds with similar powder type needs that you didn't feel the need to provide load info for*.Hodgdon SUPERFORMANCE powder and LEVEREVOLUTION powder are not used in any other cartridges because the powder does not offer a level of performance better than other powders already on the market.
The net effect of that bone headed decision is that people are going to have go grope around, blindly, trying to figure out what those loads just might be. Some of us are aware of what good practices are in light of the relative lack of factory specifications. Some aren't. Some of us know how to extrapolate, scale back, and incrementally work our way forward. Some don't. And what about those who don't? How may KB's are going to happen because of your idiotic close mindedness? How many idiots are going to do something stupid because you won't release comprehensive load data? Bah! LAME!
*after all, how many threads regarding the use of Unique, RL-7, IMR 3031 or 4895 are there on this site? People have a pet powder, a known powder, a versatile staple, looking to use that powder for their next round? Why shouldn't Hornady/Hodgdon recognize this very prevalent trend? These new powders might become our next favorites. Publish the data, and let us decide! It might not be as awesome, but it might be adequate and adequate might be all that is required. IIRC, our current staples began life just like that.
Ok, they deem to give the blessing to .25-35. And they give the blessing to .30-30. Great. But they don't give the blessing to a round that is smack dead in between the 2? Why no info for 7-30 Waters? It's a no-brainer. You can't tell me that a powder will work well with .25-35 and will work well with .30-30 but by implication won't work well with a round based on the same parent case as the other 2 but roughly halfway between them. But then again, there seems to be a whole heap of no-brainer, short bus type of lack of thinking going on here.As for the LEVEREVOLUTION, I guess nice for the 25-35 shooters...
Meanwhile, I'm going to continue using the powders that I've always been using. Especially so regarding the 160 FTX bullet in .30-30. Hornady's published specs were laughably weak. I worked up my own, loads that perform close enough to Hornady's factory loads that I don't feel the difference is all that significant. Close enough.
Come And Take It
Sigh, this traveling show has left Tx (for now) and has landed in Fl. Hey, at least it is still in Free America.
I find the fact that they're providing data for the .25-35 very interesting as max data for that cartridge is the starting point for working up loads for my .250 Banshee wildcat. I've really got to look into this stuff.
RATS, I just looked at the PDF, and they only list data for 75 grain bullets. The Banshee uses 100 - 117 grainers. I'd have to do some very serious interpolating, and I don't know if I want to try that.
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I'm going to give the stuff a good working over in 307W and in the wild cat (30 Lever Maximum) I've been working on. I'll start with 308 ME data and work from there.
That exactly matches what Hodgden told me on the phone when I called and asked about the LVR powder.
Come on, Brian! Where's your sense of adventure?Originally Posted by Brian in FL
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Wise statement, gb_in_tx. I also believe that if we are patient there will be much more data available from the bullet manufacturers in the near future. Hodgdon may be focussed on powder and factory round sales (via Hornady) for profit, but their business model won't impact those from Nosler, Sierra, Speer, etc.Originally Posted by gb_in_tx
Nobody makes a a lever rifle in 338 Federal and Hornady doesn't make LeverRevolution ammo for it. They must mean 338 ME?
You sir are wrong. Read the data they published in the PDF file.Originally Posted by Ghostman
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