+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16
Like Tree8Likes

Thread: Red Dot powder and The Load



  1. #1
    Super Site Contributor - Team 35 Remington Capt'n Contributing Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Middleburg, FL
    Posts
    9,468
    Member #
    7091
    Thanked
    91 times

    Red Dot powder and The Load

    A while ago, in Handloaders Digest #11, C. E. Harris wrote an article called "The Load." In it, he proposed that one could load 13 grains of Red Dot powder behind any bullet in any cartridge with at least the capacity of the .35 Rem in .30 caliber and up. I have used this economical load in several cartridges for light recoil shooting - from .30-06 to .45-70 Springfield. It's super in old military rifles. Not only is the recoil very light, but it's pretty darned accurate. It makes an excellent load for a youngster just starting out with a centerfire rifle too. Now that I've got a .35 Rem rifle, I'll give it a try in that shooter as well.
    "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --John Adams

  2. #2
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Lincoln, NE
    Posts
    3,545
    Member #
    365
    Thanked
    951 times

    Re: Red Dot powder and The Load

    Brian, he did say "in any case of capacity greater than the 35 Remington."

    I also have the article you mentioned in my collection of references.

    Emphasis on "greater than."

    I'm afraid that's a bit hot for best cast bullet accuracy in the .35, and fast powders must be loaded to lower levels using either plainbase or gaschecked lead bullets for best accuracy in the .35 Remington.

    Pass on the full 13 grains.

    Incidentally, with lighter cast bullets in the .30's, such as the Lee Soupcan (C113F) or the RCBS 130 grain or thereabouts, considerably better accuracy is obtained in the nine grain range for about 15-1600 fps in the .30-06 and .308. Accuracy is also better with the heavier bullets as well - give it a try. The velocity may not meet your standards at 12-300 fps with the 150-180 grain bullets, but accuracy is improved here as well assuming adequate rifling pitch to stabilize.

    At some point pressures with fast powders and the quick kick they give cast bullets cause accuracy to fall off. I don't suggest this load with plainbase bullets (even nine grains) as it responds better with gascheck bullets. Drop the load to seven grains or less in any case of .308 size or larger using plainbase bullets and Red Dot.

    Accuracy will be much better with plainbase using the even further reduced charge.

    I have never shot a load using 13 grains of Red Dot in various calibers that didn't shoot somewhat better when the charge was reduced. With due respect to Mr. Harris, who is one of my favorite writers and quite knowledgeable.

    He settled on the 13 grain range as universally suitable, but not necessarily optimum in accuracy for all, which is an important distinction to make. 13 Red Dot and the 405 Lee FN make an excellent load in the .45-70 at about 1150 fps, for instance, but is not recommended for old Trapdoor Springfields.

    So, for even better accuracy with cast bullets, drop that charge of Red Dot!

    Jacketed bullets are less of a problem with this 13 grain load.

    However, it is still not a jacketed bullet load at 13 grains in the .35 Remington. Drop the charge. Doing so still stays within Ed's idea for a economical powder choice, and is more proper as to pressures.
    packard and unclesarge58 like this.

  3. #3
    Super Site Contributor - Team 35 Remington Capt'n Contributing Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Middleburg, FL
    Posts
    9,468
    Member #
    7091
    Thanked
    91 times

    Re: Red Dot powder and The Load

    Darn it! I guess I remembered it incorrectly. It would be you who caught the error.

    But, from my experience with my H & R Trapdoor Officer's Model replica, the load, using 405 grain jacketed Remington is safe in that rifle. Accurate too. I get 200-yard groups in the 2.5-in range with the tang sight. Perhaps 13 grains of Red Dot would not be safe in an original Trapdoor.

    I was going to try 13 grains of Red Dot with 158 grain cast bullets in my .35 Rem. How much lighter would you recommend I go?
    "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --John Adams

  4. #4
    Sidewinder
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    131
    Member #
    6351

    Re: Red Dot powder and The Load

    My Lyman cast bullet book suggests 8.5gr of Red Dot for 1390 fps, to 11.0 gr for 1615fps. with the 150 plain base round nose cast bullet. My experience would suggest less than the recommended starting charge through that amount for accuracy in the .35 Remington. I would start with 7.0 grains perhaps. I've used as little as 4.5 grains of Red Dot with a 150 gr. plain base, but don't know what the velocity was. My best accuracy with Unique, and plain base bullets in that weight range is 8.0 grains which is probably around 11-1200 fps.

  5. #5
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Lincoln, NE
    Posts
    3,545
    Member #
    365
    Thanked
    951 times

    Re: Red Dot powder and The Load

    I'd be reprising most of a past post a few pages back on cast bullet loads in the .35 Remington, but the short version is to try around 6 grains to start and go up or down from there as accuracy allows.

    Anything above 1200 fps will probably see accuracy go south with Red Dot.

    Try reading this thread for a few more details:

    http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/i...c,34323.0.html

    If the bullet is a plainbase, you're going to be nowhere near 13 grains when trying to produce best accuracy.
    packard and unclesarge58 like this.

  6. #6
    Sidewinder
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    131
    Member #
    6351

    Re: Red Dot powder and The Load

    +1 on 35 Remington's suggestion. He has a lot more chronograph data than I do, but I agree that the best accuracy will come under 1200 fps with plainbase. On the other hand I've had very good results with as much as 11.0 grains of Unique under the 358156 GC bullet in the 35 Rem.

  7. #7
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Lincoln, NE
    Posts
    3,545
    Member #
    365
    Thanked
    951 times

    Re: Red Dot powder and The Load

    The deal with the Red Dot load of 13 grains in the Trapdoor, IMO, is with the various bullets.

    Seat a bullet deeper in the .45-70 using fast powders and it starts to behave like an overgrown 45 ACP - pressures go up noticeably as case volume is taken up.

    The Lee 405 hollowbase intended for the 45-70 is longer and seats deeply in the case. Velocities/pressures go up noticeably with the deeper seated bullet.

    I would guess the load you are shooting would be fine with a more compact bullet taking up less powder space, which is more common, and I do not doubt you when you say it works for you. The loads I have shot in my Microgroove 45-70 using 13.0 Red Dot have been great fun to shoot, and average about 1120 fps while seeming mild, just as you say. I am absolutely amazed at how a heavy bullet at that speed can penetrate as it does.

    The Lee bullet jacks that up to about 1250 with a notable increase in pressure, I am certain.
    packard likes this.

  8. #8
    Super Site Contributor - Team 35 Remington Capt'n Contributing Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Middleburg, FL
    Posts
    9,468
    Member #
    7091
    Thanked
    91 times

    Re: Red Dot powder and The Load

    Muchas gracias, amigos. I'll give your suggestions a try once my .35 Rem dies arrive. Lots of good advice on this forum, by gum!!!
    "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --John Adams

  9. #9
    High Priest of the Powder Hoarders Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Coastal Missouri across the water from The PRI.
    Posts
    16,976
    Member #
    287
    Thanked
    6466 times

    Re: Red Dot powder and The Load

    I'm wondering if that article has been printed in more than one DBI book, I think I saw something identical (or pretty close) in an old Gun Digest annual many years ago, it was called, "The Load." I'm also a big fan of Mr. Harris!

    If you don't have Red Dot handy, you can always try Unique, Herco, or any powder in the same range. I have used a lot of Unique for my 35 Remington loads, I shoot 158 JHP's and JSP's over 9.2 grains, but haven't had a chance to chronograph the load yet. I'd guess the velocity at around 1400 fps, and my rifle prefers the Remington bullets to all others. Accuracy is excellent.

    PJ
    "There is a fine line between a hobby and Mental Illness". Dave Barry

    Team 1894 #4
    Team 45-70 #847

  10. #10
    Super Site Contributor - Team 35 Remington Capt'n Contributing Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Middleburg, FL
    Posts
    9,468
    Member #
    7091
    Thanked
    91 times

    Re: Red Dot powder and The Load

    I like the Red Dot loads because, when I was a shotshell loader, I bought a large keg of the stuff, and this is one fine way of using it up.
    "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --John Adams


Home | Forum | Active Topics | What's New | Subscribed Threads

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Search tags for this page

.30-30 loads with red dot powder
,
8 grains allenon red dot 270 winchester
,
c.e. harris the load
,
red dot 30.06 loads
,
red dot buck shot loads
,
red dot loads
,

red dot powder

,
red dot powder for 30-06
,
red dot powder for 3030
,
red dot powder for sale
,
red dot powder in rifles
,

red dot powder loads

,

the load red dot

Click on a term to search for related topics.