Just wondering about increasing the 30-30 performance, could any ballistic advantage's be gained by using 375 win brass? The brass is thicker to withstand more pressure than the 30-30's brass. The 375 was built to withstand 52,000 CUP compared to the 30-30's pressure of 42,000 CUP. With that being said the Marlin gun's are identical, while Winchester had to improved the 94's design to withstand the pressure of the 375 and called it the 94 big bore. My understanding is that the Marlin rifle was already stronger so it didn't need any upgrading. Therefor the fame work of my Marlin model 375 is exactly the same as the frame work of a Marlin model 336. This means the 336 frame can withstand 52,000 CUP, and i have prove of it and own both. I have shot max reloads from my 375 pushing 220 grain bullets upward to 2,300 fps. Now a 30-30 certainly isn't going to do that, just saying its frame could withstand the pressure. Now what i'm proposing is necking down the much thicker .375 Win brass for use with faster/hotter burning powders such as Reloader 7, H-4198, and AA-1680. I think one could add an extra 100 to 200 fps by doing this? Not saying i need to do this or any deer could ever tell a difference, but just for something educational if nothing else... What do you all thank?
The problem with that theory is that you really don't have any idea where pressures are going when you overstuff a .30-30 case, or a re-formed .375 case.
The M336 is a pretty sturdy design, but as you near the top end of the load range, pressures tend to increase well out of proportion to the amount of propellant added.
I never worry about a Max load in a manual being a problem, as there is some extra margin with a Marlin, and I know guys with M788 Remington's, T/C's and Ruger No.3's that use some pretty pumped up loads in .30-30 brass without failures, but those actions have a lot more structural integrity by design.
Using thicker brass is not all peaches and cream. Thicker brass makes for less volume inside, which adds more pressure. Those who reload calibers that are also available for military use have learned this. Using thicker military brass, typically requires a lower powder charge and a different result not only pressure wise, but balistically as well.If the only concern was working up a better load, with some experimenation, I'm sure it couild be done. Without a way to ENSURE pressures were being kept within guidelines, I don't think this is a good project. This is only my opinion.If you haven't already read some of the threads in the Reloading subsection of this forum, I think you can find plenty of help toward producing a better round for your 30-30 without resorting to different brass. I got a lot of really savvy and experienced help in that sub section in working out my my high velocity 110 grain 30-30 loads. The guys there are not only savvy and experienced, but also seem to really enjoy helping. If there is a better treasure trove of 30-30 reloading information than that subsection, I can't imagine where it could be.Best of luck with it.
US Army, 1968 to 1971
"The further from truth society gets, the more it will hate those who speak it."
- George Orwell
Anytime I maxed out anything, accuracy was going down the tube except for the Leverevolution powder/bullets. If you want more velocity, get a bigger gun. The 308MX comes to mind.
The .30-30 is one of those wonderfully well balanced cartridges, and I'm reluctant to "hot rod" it at all.
She's easy on the shoulder, easy on the ears, easy on powder consumption, easy on bullets and does a great job on game animals.
The modest velocity helps the bullets perform well, instead of over-stressing them with high impact velocity. They dig deep and expand well. Usually I load and shoot 170's at factory level velocity. Can't help but chuckle a bit when I shoot 150's as the recoil seems somehow even less, to the point it's just fun.
Most of my other rifles either throw a small bullet real fast, or burn considerably more powder shoving a bullet faster. They're fine for what they do, but I'll leave the .30-30 pretty much as is - which is nearly perfect.
If a fellow has to have a little more zip, there are others to choose from: .307 Win, .308 Marlin, .300 Savage, .308 Win... Etc.
There is also the .30-30 "AI" version, which adds some zip, and of course a guy can drop down to the 130 gr bullet weight for considerably more velocity, without bumping up pressures any.
I'm not that big of a fan of the 308MX, if i was going that route i'd look for the odd 307 Winchester but thats not my point or purpose. My 375 will stomp anything a 308MX will and them some, so i don't need anymore power. I'm also not a big fan of those ballistic tip bullets in a lever action's either. If i had needed extra range, i suppose i'd never took so well to lever action guns in the first place. Just looking for information on this, i have read on other forums were this has been done before. Their is even some reloading data listed on Reloader's Nest - a reloaders resource on this exact project. I have no intention of shooting light bullets at the minimum i'll be using 150 grs. I realize pressure increases with thicker brass, i suppose that was exactly Winchester intent when developing the .375 Winchester. Use pressure instead of powder to reach its speed, thus i can use 38 grs in both cartridge's with different weight bullets and faster burning powder to retain nearly equal velocity's. With 50 grs more weight my .375 will still generally shoot a little faster while burning nearly equal amounts of powder. My 375 is also my primary hunting gun, i kindly just purchase the 30-30 as a project gun. I can also neck up 30-30 brass and use it in my .375 but at lower pressure, people generally stay at 38-55 level's when doing it. Anyway's even with the increase of pressure their should be signs of visible pressure's showing up when getting to hot. I would start very low and work with extreme caution. I honestly thank it can be done, i'm not just looking for any hot-rod 30-30 load. That was never my goal nor intent, i only purchased the 30-30 to use as a mini-me for my 375. Something to play with and that i could use brass vise-verse with etc.. I love the little gun but i doubt it'll receive much hunting time. I'm also new to this site so i am still trying to figure everything out. I certainly don't have a way to check pressure other than what my eye's see. My only point is a 336 can withstand more pressure and 375 brass can withstand more pressure. Their's no reason why a 30-30 round couldn't be developed working at 50,000 CUP or so and be completely safe, increase pressure equal's increase in velocity.
Last edited by Malon Labe; 05-07-2013 at 10:28 AM.
You are courting disaster for the reasons stated above. You are basing your assumptions on marketing hype spewed forth by the manufacturers. Brass does not hold much pressure, the thicker brass is to make the case last longer. The Big Bore was a joke, it's no stronger than a standard Winchester receiver. The locking mechanism is not the failure point, receiver stretch and rupture at the joint with the barrel is where failure occurs. And thicker brass will be of little help.
I don't know why you would need an extra 100 fps but the 30-30 AI would be the way to go rather than some ill-conceived wildcat.
just use the LVR powder and bullets...excessive pressure will take a toll over time...what is safe today might be serious tomorrow
Only one reload i have for my 30-30 likes to be ran hot (right at the edge of published data). Its a Barnes, , just wondering its there a reason your pursuing this? Running it as a single shoot with pointed bullets should stretch your range a bit if that's what your interested. Regardless good luck and stay safe.
No the 94 Big bore was not a joke, that is just your personal opinion which is a joke to me. The 94 big bore introduced 3 of the best lever action's cartridge's ever developed. This new Hornady leverevolution stuff is a joke to me as well. Not saying its bad stuff but the 308MX is doing nothing more than the 307 did 30 years prior to it. I mean come on really? When did it become not ok to neck brass up and down? Now get you an old 38-55 Winchester and put a Hot Reloaded .375 Win into it and shoot it, sense brass don't matter and see what happen's. When you go educate yourself please come back with a legit response...