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Thread: Load Pressures for my 93 38-55 "B" gun



  1. #31
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    Re: Load Pressures for my 93 38-55 "B" gun

    Quote Originally Posted by RHOUSER
    JBledsoe, that is exactly the information I was trying to find. I am aware of the Piezzo based PSI measurement that they can run now with both Maximum and MAP pressures being captured. I am just trying to understand the change that the nickle steel made and what I am seeing in the published loading guidss. I have been reloading for 40 years now and agree that just because it's published doesn't mean I can't grenade my rifle with it.

    Smithywess, my Lyman #49 lists the starting load for IMR 4198 at 24.0 grains.
    My Ken Waters Pet load article for 38-55 lists specifically for the 1881 Marlin 21 grains IMR 4198 with a lyman 243 at 1286 fps. He notes this load as "uniformity very accurate - Match load". He also lists specifically for for the Marlin 93 and Win 94 - 26.0 gr of IMR 4198 with the 243 lyman at 1612 fps . The 26 gr from waters is keeping with the LYMAN VOL #49 load data IF you are shooting the 94 or the 93, but, would be over with the 1881. Hodgdons data center carries the H4198 with a range from 18.5 gr - 24.0 gr. Not the same as IMR 4198 but adds to my confusion.
    Smithywess, any chance you would share your load or at least if it within any of the above criteria?

    thanks to all. rc
    RHOUSER,

    I believe I first reviewed Ken Waters information on IMR 4198 powder as I like it's case filling capacity. I don't suppose there are many of us who have the ability to measure pressures but I began with 18.0 grains in my own rifle, firing 5 shot groups over a sandbag rest and at a distance of 80 yards which gave me a speed of 1228 fps. I quit at 21.0 grains with a speed of 1412 fps. All the 5 shot groups were under 2" but I selected one using a 20.0 grain charge whose speed was 1347 fps. This group size and speed has been subsequently consistent, and suits me fine. This is the group.....


    Thanks. This may not be the case in your rifle.
    If my wife asks....all guns cost five bucks and ammo is free !!!

  2. #32
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    Re: Load Pressures for my 93 38-55 "B" gun

    Smithywess, did you review the Ken Waters loads on line? I have searched under 38-55 for as much as I can find, but, missed your review. That is a FINE 80 yard group with irons. If I may ask, what brass, brass length, and which primers are you using. (Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery).

    Thanks to all who have helped me through this learning session.

    Jbledsoe, Leveraddict, and Smithywess, I now have come to understand that there is no real answer on the "comparative" strength of a B Barrel. I think Jbledsoe's explanation of what was happening at the turn of the century transition period makes perfect sense. I LOVE the concept that a reloader of the period just bought a can of GUNPOWDER to reload with (in opposition to H this or IMR that) when he bought his flour, salt, suger, etc. I was way overthinking things.

    I will keep reading and learning, but, now believe that there is no point in trying to establish a performance comparison/relationship between the Nickle Steel barrels and the B barrels produced during the turn of the century years. I think I will just enjoy my B Barrel and 93 for what they are. A piece of art and history that I can hold in my hands.


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    Re: Load Pressures for my 93 38-55 "B" gun

    .

    Good post, Houser, now you are on the right road. Enjoy your "B" gun for what it is, shoot cast bullets at 1100 to 1200 fps. If you want a 38-55 magnum, find a Marlin in 375 Win caliber.

    .

  4. #34
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    Re: Load Pressures for my 93 38-55 "B" gun

    Rhouser,

    Enjoy your B grade rifle as it was intended to be used, load it up with lots ofthe Holy Black, insert a well lubricated bullet into the case and relax while you pull the trigger. That first push from the recoil, the smell of burning sulphur and that puff of smoke and you will be like me.

    HOOKED ON BP

    Chris
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  5. #35
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    Re: Load Pressures for my 93 38-55 "B" gun

    RHOUSER, BROPHY (Marlin Firearms) on page 485 says about barrels for 38-55 cartridges. "38-55 MARLIN HIGH POWER SMOKELESS: The regular Ballard & Marlin cartridge is now loaded with High Power Smokeless Powder, giving a velocity of 1700 feet per second with a 255 grain jacketed bullet (either hard or soft nose) as against 1316 feet per second velocity with the regular black powder or low power smokeless load.
    This cartridge is suitable for use in all Marlin Rifles, Model 1893, having "Special Smokeless Steel" barrels. It is not recommended, and in our judgement it is unsafe, to use in old-style rifles having soft steel barrels and actions made of inferior materials, designed for black powder cartridges only.
    The "Special Smokeless Steel" has a tensile strength of from 100,000 to 130,000 pounds to the square inch as against an ultimate strength of about 50,000 pounds for the ordinary steel. The ordinary low priced steel is comparatively soft and the bore will quickly wear if hard jacketed bullets are used, but the "Special Smokeless Steel" is hard and jacketed jacketed bullets may be used for a long time and show no signs of wearing."
    The grade B/FOR BLACK POWDER barrels are just that.
    A mans got to know his own comfort level/safety margin with which he can live with.
    Brophy says the same thing for the 32-40 MARLIN HIGH POWER SMOKELESS: on page 483 of the same book.
    I hope this shines a little more light on your concerns.

    V65magna

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    Re: Load Pressures for my 93 38-55 "B" gun

    RHOUSER, I have a 1893 (FOR BLACK POWDER) 32-40 barrel on a Model 336 action, also a 1893 38-55 barrel on a Model 336 action. In the 32-40 when I shoot, it is with low power smokeless loads with cast bullets. The 38-55 barrel is "Special Smokeless Steel".
    V65magna

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    Re: Load Pressures for my 93 38-55 "B" gun

    Thanks V65Magna. The Brophy observations mirrored the observations by JBledsoe, Lever addict, and Smithywess. It is good to see it quantified. Let me say to all, thanks for your patience while I was moving to understanding. I have 100 rounds of 10 gr unique rounds (2 different cast bullets) and am heading to a fifty yard range to work on my sight picture. I have a set of Winds shooting sticks in the mail. I will get to do some 300+ ranges tomorrow. Thanks rc

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    Re: Load Pressures for my 93 38-55 "B" gun

    Rhouser I will be looking forward to your range work! Since it seems you have found answers to your questions this thread is about dead. It was however the most interesting thread here. I kinda hate to see it nearing the end. With all the enablers we have I wish to see a lot of action in this section in the future!
    Lou

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  9. #39
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    Re: Load Pressures for my 93 38-55 "B" gun

    Just back from a 50 yard indoor range (no alibais for wind). First off, I was using a powder measure to throw my charges so I know I was shooting loads thrown between 9.5 and 10.0gr (unique). I will use my rcbs chargemaster when I want to get serious (measure every charge). I had 50 rounds loaded with the LASERCAST .380 240 gr and 50 rounds loaded with the bullets I cast fromRanchDogs TLC370-235 RF mold. These were gas checked (not necessary for velocity only for the bullet). Lubed with the ALOX/Johnson Pastewax/mineral spirit brew.
    Bottom line: What a amazing shoot. I started just at 50 feet with the Lasercast to adjust my tangsite.
    Had a 3/4" by 1" vertical string. AHAA, the tang site is moving forward under recoil. Reshot the 3 shot group resetting the tang to the correct locked position after each shot. 3 shots with the barest of cloverleafs (meaning just off a one hole). Needed 2 inches of up. Made a guess. The bullet strike made a 4 inch gain but PERFECTLY at 12 oclock from the first group. Good sign. Back down by 1/2 the first move and was 1/4 inch to the right at the center of the 10 ring. Good enough.
    Moved the target to the 50 and adjusted the sight again (was high at 50 when dead on at 50 feet (duh).
    Shot another 25 of the lasercasts and produced multiple 3 and 5 shot groups in the 2 inch and less.
    I loaded the Ranch Dogs and my rifle clearly likes them better. I think I am out of space but the RD's let me lever 7 rounds into a sub 2" group at 50 ant thats with the sight moving with each shot. thanks rc

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    Re: Load Pressures for my 93 38-55 "B" gun

    Quote Originally Posted by RHOUSER
    Smithywess, did you review the Ken Waters loads on line? I have searched under 38-55 for as much as I can find, but, missed your review. That is a FINE 80 yard group with irons. If I may ask, what brass, brass length, and which primers are you using.
    RHOUSER,

    You sound to have enjoyed yourself at your last shoot which was good to hear. When I originally looked at Ken Waters loads for the .38-55 I, too, saw the information you have but I wasn't looking for the 1600 fps loads he had with 26.0 grains of IMR 4198. Assuming that each grain reduction would give a reduction in speed of 50 fps, or thereabouts, I started in the region of 18.0 grains and worked up to the 1350 fps that I was trying to achieve. A bit of a round about way but it worked fine. Waters information was most helpful to me. I am using Winchester Western brass with a case length of 2.056"/52.23m.m.. My overall length is 2.322"/59.00m.m. and the primer is Winchester Western large rifle primer. As I said before I like the Lee flat nose flat base bullet sized to .379" as my rifle slugs to .3765". I don't think any claims that smokeless powder can bump up the diameter of even very soft alloyed bullets is valid. Even using a fast powder like Unique. I have had to lightly hand ream the throats of three rifles, in .44-40 and two in .40-65, to accept cast bullets to a sized diameter at least two thousandths of an inch overbore. That's why I was so delighted when I could find that Lee mould for the .38-55 in unsized hard cast diameters from .380'' to .381" from my 'homemade' Lyman #2 alloy. Fortunately they chamber easily in my rifle when sized to .379". Adhering to these principles and ensuring that my bullets do not have any curvature to the base perimeter I have had good accuracy in complete safety and no leading of my bore. The rifle I am using has a round barrel for special smokeless steel and I suppose I could load it to higher pressures but I'm not interested. I know of no elk that would survive a well placed shot, and it sure makes the gongs sing. It is pictured in the avatar to the left with the combination receiver sight patented by Louis Hepburn for the Marlin company in 1903.

    thanks. Hope this helps, and good luck with your fine rifle with it's black powder barrel. It sounds like a good one. Any chance of a picture of it ?
    If my wife asks....all guns cost five bucks and ammo is free !!!


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