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Thread: 308 Marlin Express vs 30-30 improved



  1. #1
    Sidewinder
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    308 Marlin Express vs 30-30 improved

    So, I just gotta ask this question and realize it is likely hypothetical.

    I see reloading data for the 30-30 improved that states a 150 grain bullet can be pushed to 2617 fps from a 20 inch barrel.

    Another website claims that a 160 grain bullet can be driven 2521 fps in a 22 inch barrel with the 308 ME.

    Considering this information (if it is accurate) these two cartridges appear to be very close to the same if external ballistics are used as a measuring stick.

    Do you think a 160 grain flex tip can be driven at or near the same velocity as a 308 ME in a 22 inch barreled 30-30 improved?

  2. #2
    Gunfighter
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    Ive yet to be able to get published velosities in my reloads.. as well as my chrono duplicating factory loaded stated velosities.. I dunno if its my chrono or what.. I do know that when testing loads the testers use optimun conditions.. some are tested indoors in a controlled inviroment an that can make a considerable difference.
    However complicated the issues become... it comes down to one simple question. Which is more important to you Life or Liberty? I've made my decision long ago.

    "Is life so sweet or peace so dear; as to be paid for at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me Liberty or give me Death." Patrick Henry

  3. #3
    Deadeye
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    I am skeptical that the 30-30 AI could get the 160gr gummy up to the same velocities as the 308MX without pushing the pressures up to questionable levels. Ackley claimed 2700 fps with a 150gr using 3031 in the 30-30 AI, but I think he was running some scary pressures. In my opinion you will not get 308 MX velocities out of the 30-30 AI at safe pressure levels. I would also compare several sources of data, as some sources publish very optimistic velocities. I can say my chrony shows that I am within 30 fps of Hornady's published factory velocities out of my 22" MX barrel.

    Gary

    Gary

  4. #4
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    Velocity is a product of pressure, all else being equal. raising the pressure will raise the velocity. There is no free lunch, so to speak.

    IF the two cases had the same capacity (grains of water) and were loaded to the same OAL with the same bullet and fired in the same barrel length, THEN they would probably get the same pressure and produce the same velocity.

    The posts on this forum and other published artlicles would lead me to believe accuracy and velocity would be easier to achieve with the 308ME than with the 30-30AI. JMHO

    Jeff
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  5. #5
    pb
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    Deadeye
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    I have always been a little leary of the 30/30 AI. Mostly because the data seems like a crap shoot on pressue. That said, the 30/30 can be loaded with Lever evo powder and get2500 fps with a 150 grain bullet. Not bad! I have reloaded the 307 win and was getting 2650fps with a 150 grain bullet using Reloader 15, 20 inch barrel winchester big bore. I dont think the real 30/30 AI numbers will equal the 308 ME and I dont think I would like to try to get it there. But if I wanted to modifiy a Marlin I would consider rechambering to 307 win.

  6. #6
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    The case of the 30 30 AI I believe is the same length as a standard 30 30 (2.039") and the 308 express case is (1.920"). The 308 exp. Loaded with the 308 exp. 160 gr FTX (#30396) bullet C.O.L. is 2.590" and the 30 30 AI. load with the 30 30 160 gr. FTX bullet (#30395) should be the same as the standard 30 30 C.O.L. 2.535" with the same [#30395] FTX. bullet.


    A 30 30 AI. is made by reaming the shoulders out for more powder capacity but the throat stays the same. The 30 30 160 gr. FTX bullet {#30395} must be used which is seated deeper than the 308 exp. FTX 160 gr. bullet {#30396} taking up case powder capacity. I'm not a gunsmith but I think if it's throat-ed to accept the 308 exp. 160 gr. bullet {#30396} the AI would be improved farther. The only draw back it probable it wouldn't work in the 336 action but in a single shot no problem.

    I always considered the 308 exp. as nothing more than a 30 30 AI. in my view. The 308 exp. is somewhere in between the 30 30 and on the heels of the Savage 300. But it makes good marketing sense to name it 308 exp.

    I don't own a 30 30 AI. and with the LE. ammo I don't see a need to ruin a perfectly good 336 30 30 (unless it's a Remarlin).

    Ackley Improved click on the link.

    30-30 Winchester

    30-30 Winchester

    TNY
    Last edited by 308/338; 09-02-2012 at 12:34 PM.
    My Avatar is my brother John who left me to soon. He was 10 Y/O 1 month older than me. He took me off the Streets of Brooklyn taught me how to handle a rifle and to hunt. For his attention I would always be grateful. Rest in Peace Brother John.

  7. #7
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    pb I also thought that rechambering a 30 30 to 307 win. would be a better solution. But the problem is the 30 30 case length is 2.039" and the 307 win. is 2.015". This would mean the bullet would have to jump .024" to reach the rifling. Also the 307 win. uses the 30 30 bullets and may have to be loaded with the 30 30 160 gr. FTX bullet too. With this in mind I think the best rechambering is the AI. it already been proving to work.

    TNY

    PS. The HDY #8 manual list both FTX 160 gr. #30396 and #30395 for the 307win. But the max C.O.L listed is 2.560" and loaded with the FTX #30396 the C.O.L. is 2.575" test rifle is the Winchester 94AE? At top Velocity of 2550 fps.
    Last edited by 308/338; 08-05-2012 at 08:45 PM. Reason: add PS.
    My Avatar is my brother John who left me to soon. He was 10 Y/O 1 month older than me. He took me off the Streets of Brooklyn taught me how to handle a rifle and to hunt. For his attention I would always be grateful. Rest in Peace Brother John.

  8. #8
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    I've never heard of anyone having a problem rechambering a 30-30 to 307W. I have heard of problems with the AI's. Preacher wrote of a lot of aggravations with the one he had, operative word is "had".

    0.024" isn't much of a jump to the lands in the big picture. Some rifles require more than than that in their designs - comes across as freebore as in the Weatherby chambers. IF that were a problem in one of mine, I would be seating the bullets to fit and still work through the action. That would cut the jump a bit, if it were necessary. I followed the 307W for a while. I think the 308ME is a better match for the 336, but needs to be in an XLR to take advantage of the stronger threads. An SG version like Flat Top works on would make for an even higher performance level.

    Just my thoughts...

    Jeff
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  9. #9
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  10. #10
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    Sweetwater as I said I'm not a gunsmith and only giving my thoughts on rechambering 30 30 to whatever. The 30 30 is what it is and that's not bad. With today ammo/components the 30 30 can do more that our grandfathers 30 30 ammo did and would probably match grandpa's AI too.

    Yes .024" don't seem like much of a jump to me too but none the less it's a point that I thought should be known. Yeah you can customize the 307 win to fit in a re-chambered 30 30 to work in the existing action. But you might find with the FTX bullet that in order to function through the action the bullet may have to be seated deeper in order to function which would further increase the bullet to rifling jump.

    My Win. 94AE 356W likes the FTX bullet but it's too long for the action as suggested by HDY. I must seat the bullet deeper if I'm to use this bullet and if it's still as accurate, then it's a keeper.

    Personally I would sell the 336 30 30 and buy a 308 express, Remington is making them and can be had for less than $600. I would sell the 336 30 30 ( they are selling for $500. in gun shows) for $400. and add $200 then buy a 308MX and be done.

    After a 336 30 30 is re-chambered to AI. or 307 w. and you are not happy with the results now what do you do? Can't sell it to a friend and if you are honest to the buyer and if he/she ask "why are you selling it" what do you say? The only way I would do a rechambering is if I have a extra barrel or the chamber is damaged, than a 307 W. would be it.

    The days of the 30 30 AI or gone. Sorry but that's my thoughts.
    TNY
    Last edited by 308/338; 08-06-2012 at 12:16 PM.
    My Avatar is my brother John who left me to soon. He was 10 Y/O 1 month older than me. He took me off the Streets of Brooklyn taught me how to handle a rifle and to hunt. For his attention I would always be grateful. Rest in Peace Brother John.


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