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3K views 23 replies 13 participants last post by  Tennman 
#1 ·
After several years of use I have decided that my ruger frontier in 300wsm is not the ultimate NW Woods gun I had hoped for. Nothing wrong with the gun as it has dropped every ELK with one shot. There are several personal use reasons that it just isnt working

I have now set my sights on a new lever gun. I prefer to use one gun for deer and ELK for several reasons

I have landed on a few choices

1. Marlin 308 express
CONS
Will the cartridge still be available in ten to 20 years?
To get a stainless I must get the 24 in barrel
Is the cartridge enough for ELK

2 Marlin 338 express
same cons minus the ability to take elk

3 Marlin SBL 45-70

I can get it in stainless in a 18 in barrel
Cons
Either hard to find or they want blood money for them
Its gonna kick the crap outta me
Its way more gun than I need for deer and the long range ballistics are poor

Whats your input?
 
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#2 ·
Yes the 308 is enough cartridge for elk, but the 338 is better. The 308 is more popular than the 338, but our store had both ammo on the shelf this year. Good luck! DP
 
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#3 ·
Marlin claims that the 308 is their most popular rifle right now. Ammo around here became plentiful 2 months ago. It is enough for elk ( the 338 would be better ). You can always have the barrel cut down ( but who would? ) on a stainless.
 
#4 ·
All 3 of those calibers are good choices, but I would feel comfortable in the woods with my 35 Remington. It has its cons too, such as seasonal runs on ammo. I have also considered getting a 444 marlin, which has plenty of power to take care of an elk. I think the recoil would be softer than the 45-70 but I haven't shot either one, so I'm just guessing. I have been looking for a larger caliber lever action too, and I have been leaning toward the 444 over the 45-70. I just can't get over the high price of those big bore Marlins when my 35 Remington is enough gun for everything I hunt. And if my 35 Remington isn't big enough, I have some 30-06's to choose from. Good luck with whatever you decide.
 
#5 ·
By the way, welcome to the forum!
 
#6 ·
You list the price of the 45-70 as a "con". Based upon any that came available in the last year or two, I don't see the 308ME or 338ME as being any cheaper.
 
#7 ·
I sold a Marlin 336-A in .35 with a 24" barrel to an Elk hunter who was going to hand load Speer 220 gr bullets for hunting Elk in the timber. After talking to him for a while he seemed very confident in his cartridge choice and it's capability's for his intended use. Just sayin.......

C.D.
 
#11 ·
I can certainly look into it but it seems a little light to me if I goof a shot. I have been fortunate and taken the last three Elk with a clean shot through both Lungs. All three of those Elk confirmed my need for a fast light gun as they were all on the move. I do have a 1894 in 44 mag that I downed an Elk with but it took additional shots to put him away
 
#9 ·
Well the frontier has a 16 in barrel so to me the 24 on the 338 is huge.

If I could have the 338 with a 18 or 20 jn barrel and a big loop lever it would make the decision much easier. But it seems absurd to spend that much on a rifle and the same amount again to make it usable
 
#12 ·
The search for the ultimate woods gun, that is what keeps us going. I would choose for the 308MX, the range of available suitable bullets is greater. My 308 MX is a heavier carry rifle than my Savage 99F (featherwieghts 308 & 300), and doesn't get used for that reason. Most of the Savage 99s in 308, I see for sale, are coming out of the NW, must be a reason they are so popular out that way.
 
#13 ·
Tim, as a owner of a Marlin 308MX (22" barrel) I have harvested 5 deer with it, all boiler room DRT shots. I have "No Complaints" with this rifle & it is now my go-to-gun for deer hunting.
I've never hunted Elk, but from other posters who have taken Elk with their 308MX's if you do your part, the rifle will do it's part too.
Now I would love to get my hands on a JM Marlin 338ME, but the cost is not in my ballpark, & they're rarer than hens teeth, but would love to have one anyway.. We can dream can't we??
As for ammo for the 308MX, Mod. JACKTW contacted Hornady & ask them about the future of 308MX ammo.. Per Hornady,, the 308MX ammo is one of their top selling ammo line, & they have no reason or plans to drop the line!!
personally, like others, I bought all the components to reload & I can duplicate the factory "Leverevolution" accuracy which is amazingly accurate for a levergun..
 
#14 ·
TimRuger1,

In reading the above, it appears like your choices are influenced by, but not limited to (does that wording make me sound like an attorney?): a.) power for up to elk; b.) Stainless (due to Pacific NW weather); c.) 'woods type' handling characteristics (meaning 20-22" barrel); d.) long term availability of ammunition; and e.) recoil.

Based upon this, here's my two cents worth:

a. All cartridges you mention will be fine for elk at 'woods type' distances. 338 MX might offer a wider spectrum of distances but a stainless version is only available with a 24" barrel. For what it's worth, every 24" Marlin I've handled surprised me. They are not 'unrulely' due to length.

b. Power - I think we all tend to lean toward being 'over-gunned', if there is such a thing. As you know, any elk shot through both lungs will end up in the freezer. More power gives us the ability to take 'raking' shots or penetrate deeper (big bulls, etc). That said, bulls shot well, can travel remarkable distances (like down into deep, dark canyons with steep walls that will take days to get him out).

c. Ammo availability - Who knows? It's remarkable to me that the 308MX and 338MX may fall into the defunct category. They are both perfect for the hunting you describe. To think they have a precarious future amazes me. That said, their future may be precarious simply because they are only offered in one rifle each. Historically, that isn't good. You didn't say if you reload. Reloading would create a more reliable future for you with either caliber.

d. 45-70 and recoil - I love my Guide Gun. I call it the Thump Stick. I think your experience with your 44 Mag is directly applicable to owning a 45-70. Ammo is available for Mice to Moose and everything in between. It would be a good choice out to 150 yards (ish).

Enjoy your search.. buy one of each.

Dan
 
#15 ·
Tim, welcome to Marlin Owners.

Your quest for the ultimate woods rifle is equivalent to opening a can of worms around a campfire. You are going to get varied answers in varying calibers.

To better answer your question between the three rifles cartridges, what range of shots are you looking at? Then we can better match what caliber in a Marlin platform to your range of hunting.

That said, the 338ME is the most versatile cartridge out of the three you mentioned. It delivers the most energy on game in the widest range of hunting and at quite mild recoil. Below is a recoil table for 308ME, 338ME, 45-70, and I threw in 444 Marlin for possible consideration depending upon your hunting range.

Cartridge/bullet weight/velocity--rifle weight--recoil energy--recoil velocity
.308 Marlin Express (160 at 2660) 8.0 13.4 10.4

.338 Marlin Express (200 at 2400) 8.0 16.2 11.4
.338 Marlin Express (200 at 2600) 8.0 22.0 14.0

.444 Marlin (240 at 2400) 7.5 23.3 14.2
.444 Marlin (265 at 2200) 8.5 22.1 12.9

.45-70 (300 at 1800) 7.0 23.9 14.8
.45-70 (350 at 1900) 7.0 37.9 18.7
.45-70 (405 at 1330) 7.5 18.7 12.7


The 338ME lists two velocities which are depicting an MX and a XLR. The MX velocity listed is too low, should be @2500FPS but you can see the difference two inches in barrel length. I own both the 308MX and 338MX and both are very mild recoil, in fact, I don't notice all that much difference between the two.

I threw in the 444Marlin as a consideration along with the 45-70. The mighty triple four is hard to beat out to 200YDS but the 338ME still delivers more energy on game.

I have spoken to Hornady many times regarding the ME cartridge. They will never orphan us by discontinuing these cartridges. They have a reputation for keeping their word. And if you reload you wouldn't need to worry anyway.

I have spoken to Marlin many times and they have indicated several times the Marlin 308MX is their most popular selling rifle. Though, this was during the 338ME's suspended production while they retool. The 338ME rifles are currently in production so in time we'll see how the 338ME sales stack up to the 308ME.

You mentioned a shorter barrel to pack in the woods. I've hunted Elk for over 3 decades and a 22 inch barreled lever action rifle packs well. Both 308MX and 338MX sport a 22 inch barrel. Yet, it is a personal choice.

Regarding ballistics and terminal performance, the big bores range is much shorter than the ME cartridges but are quite capable within their respective range. The 338ME has the broadest range delivering the most terminal energy and flattest trajectory of the cartridges you mentioned. It is capable of taking Elk out to 400YDS should the need ever arise.

I'm planning to purchase another 338ME in an XLR stainless. I will cut the barrel to 22 inches and re-crown. Then bead blast the SS to a satin finish. I probably will have the Nib-X finish added to make it an all weather rifle.

I'm currently developing premium bullet offerings for the 308ME and 338ME cartridges. They will be bonded and offered in varying grains of weight for those who reload. We are getting close to wrapping up the 308ME bullet offerings. Further, these bullets are specifically designed to the ME cartridge dimensions which will be a first, offering premium bonded bullets for the ME cartridges.

So, there you have it. If you get into reloading the ME cartridge of your choice you'll never have to worry about ammo availability.

I hope this helps
Jack
 
#16 ·
Because we hunt ELk whenever we can, I believe I'd go the 338ME route myself of the three mentioned... that or a stainless BLR in .358win, ha! Good luck to you.
 
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#17 ·
You guys are extremely helpful.
If I could buy a large lever XLR with a 18-20 in barrel off the shelf I would. That being said does anyone know what it would cost to make that rifle?

At one time I had every reloading component for shotgun handgun and rifle known to man.

Kids wives money and starting businesses ate up all of my time and I decided I just dont shoot enough to keep reloading; so its all gone now and I wont be going back.

Also If I plan on sitting big clearcuts I will drag out my Weatherby alaskan in 300 win mag. But more often than not I run out of patience, jump on my horse and head down the trail.

Thank you for those numbers they are very enlightening. For comparison sake what is the recoil from my frontier in 300 WSM or my 300 win mag?
 
#18 · (Edited)
Tim, my master gunsmith estimated building out my 338XLR at $300 which $200 of that is the Nib-X finish. So, I would say he would do it for $100 to $150 without the Nib-X finish. I've done a lot of business with my gunsmith as he has built several custom rifles for me so he gives me a pretty good deal.

For the 338ME factory velocity you can figure losing approximately 15FPS per inch of barrel cut - so figure 60FPS cutting 4 inches off ending with around 2500FPS MV for a 20" barrel and 2470FPS for an 18" barrel. These are approximate MV though for factory ammo.

Regarding recoil for 300WSM and WTHBY 300 MAG here ya go:

.300 WSM (150 at 3300)8.25 22.5 13.3
.300 WSM (180 at 2970)7.25 27.1 15.5
.300 WSM (180 at 2970)8.25 23.8 13.6

.300 Wby. Mag. (150 at 3400)9.25 24.6 13.1
.300 Wby. Mag. (180 at 3240)9.0 31.6 15.0


You might want to consider what AZ Sparrow suggested and consider a Browning BLR in .358WIN. Short compact lever rifle, quick handling, accurate and potent. Double TAP and Buffalo Bore have some good ammunition offerings in 358WIN. Although, I personally find it a tad difficult to warm up to the BLR look. But a friend has one and I have played with it and must say it is a worthy alternative. I do like the pistol grip better than the straight grip stock. It shoulder's better for me and just feels right.

Yet, nothing beats the Marlin platform IMO. I think once your build is done it would be very desirable. FWIW, I wouldn't go shorter than 20 inch barrel for ease of pointing with a steady hold. And I do think the 22 inch MX barrel points extremely well and is easy to pack in the woods.

Another to consider would be a Marlin 444P. If you can find one it has an 18" ported barrel and Hornady's 265GR Superformance is a very potent round. I wouldn't hesitate shooting an Elk to 200YDS with it. Trouble is finding one.

Jack
 
#20 ·
No, I didn't figure the large loop. Not to mention, this is my gunsmith and gunsmith's pricing varying. But it gives you an idea of what it may cost.

Jack
 
#21 ·
Tim, I just saw a Marlin 444P listed in MO Trading Post. You might wish to check it out. :flute: :biggrin:

Marlin 444P


Jack
 
#22 ·
I will

I will also look at the brownings but I have to do some research on the 358 cartridge. Looks like I can get one in Stainless (plus) 20 in barrel (plus) box mag (another plus) Would just have to figure out the small lever problem

Biggest drawback I see is it looks like a gun I would have to reload for
 
#23 ·
Tim, the loop may very well be a problem. Some gunsmiths do not like to work on BLR's but my gunsmith likes them. The loop can be reconfigured for people with larger paws.

Regarding factory ammunition, Hornady, Double Tap and Buffalo Bore all make 358WIN ammunition. Hornady is loaded quite a bit milder than the latter two. But you wouldn't necessarily have to reload with these companies factory load offerings. Although, reloading would definitely save you money and you could load to your liking and needs.

I still would much prefer the Marlin 338ME built the way you want it. Then you'd have what you really want.

Jack
 
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#24 ·
Tim, I cut my 338 MXLR down to 21". My 336SS is my favorite carry gun in our hills here in Tenn and the stock MXLR felt cumbersome. I thot it was relatively inexpensive to cut, crown,and remount front sight at several hundred bucks. I may have gotten used to it but I like my rifles to give me pleasure and now it does. The experienced elk hunters here can advise 308 vs 338. I built it to be my elk gun, just not used on elk... Yet. Btw, I love it.
 
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