+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 55
Like Tree24Likes

Thread: Marlin 1894 - 45 Colt Reloads



  1. #21
    RGR
    RGR is offline
    Distinguished Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Fallon NV, Home base of TOPGUN, and other NAVY bad guy headaches.
    Posts
    6,581
    Member #
    20112
    Thanked
    6461 times
    There is a huge difference in brass base wall thickness between the 44 and the 45 Colt, and no, I do not mean the antique folded rim 45 colt, I mean even modern 45 Colt brass. Brass is a gasket, thats it, just like the head gasket on car, or think of it as a pressure valve, once the "valve" leaks, it matters not what the strength of the tank the valve is in.

    Most modern rifles steel is in the low three digit range of holding PSI, but the BRASS starts to fail at around 75,OOO PSI. While a combination of factors apply, the brass has as much to do with it as the action strength.

    but if a guy just sticks with the book loads, and every modern one I know of discusses the load limits in the modern lever guns like the 1894, one will have no issues, assuming they followed all the other common sense rules in handloading.

    Like guys wanting to hot load the Smith 25-5 in 45 colt, hey first, the put the cylinder lock notches right over the chamber, while the 29 Smith in 44 mag are between the chambers, same with the Blackhawk and Super Blackhawk, a huge difference in cylinder design. If a guy wants to shoot 44 mag loads, they should get a 44 mag, or if they want a hot 45 bullet, get a 454 or what ever other variation.

    but if guys want to swim in deep water, dont be surprised if its over the head. Same with hot loading guns. Dont blame the gun maker, if the gun comes apart when loading "off the reservation".

    Like the last post hints, a good safe load even if at the high end, but still in the book range, will kill most anything a guy should be shooting with a handgun. Can never figure it out, a guy will shoot a big hairy dangerous critter with a 44 mag, just cause it say "mag" on the ammo box, yet they have kittens when some guy might walk up there with a 30 30, with down range energy etc, being real close to the same.
    Last edited by RGR; 02-03-2012 at 01:34 PM.
    eaglesnest likes this.
    The USA in 2014 ...Where we keep the deathly ill elderly alive on a machine, even if they want too pass, and yet abort a million unborn babies a year, that have no vote in the matter.


    Its interesting that the media calls conservative protestors, "militia" and "domestic terrorists" while world wide and in the states liberal protestors are always called "students".

  2. #22
    Site Contributor Contributing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    SE Alaska
    Posts
    3,537
    Member #
    15636
    Thanked
    996 times
    Quote Originally Posted by RGR View Post
    There is a huge difference in brass base wall thickness between the 44 and the 45 Colt, and no, I do not mean the antique folded rim 45 colt, I mean even modern 45 Colt brass. Brass is a gasket, thats it, just like the head gasket on car, or think of it as a pressure valve, once the "valve" leaks, it matters not what the strength of the tank the valve is in.

    Most modern rifles steel is in the low three digit range of holding PSI, but the BRASS starts to fail at around 75,OOO PSI. While a combination of factors apply, the brass has as much to do with it as the action strength.

    but if a guy just sticks with the book loads, and every modern one I know of discusses the load limits in the modern lever guns like the 1894, one will have no issues, assuming they followed all the other common sense rules in handloading.

    Like guys wanting to hot load the Smith 25-5 in 45 colt, hey first, the put the cylinder lock notches right over the chamber, while the 29 Smith in 44 mag are between the chambers, same with the Blackhawk and Super Blackhawk, a huge difference in cylinder design. If a guy wants to shoot 44 mag loads, they should get a 44 mag, or if they want a hot 45 bullet, get a 454 or what ever other variation.

    but if guys want to swim in deep water, dont be surprised if its over the head. Same with hot loading guns. Dont blame the gun maker, if the gun comes apart when loading "off the reservation".

    Like the last post hints, a good safe load even if at the high end, but still in the book range, will kill most anything a guy should be shooting with a handgun. Can never figure it out, a guy will shoot a big hairy dangerous critter with a 44 mag, just cause it say "mag" on the ammo box, yet they have kittens when some guy might walk up there with a 30 30, with down range energy etc, being real close to the same.
    I have tried to measure the difference in case wall thickness between the 45 Colt and 44 magnum and found it is too difficult to measure the wall thickness at the base, and I will have to say without data that it is quite possible the 44 mag is thicker at the base. I have measured the case wall thickness down to about 3/4" from the neck and found them to be virtually the same, Hornady 45 Colt was .014, Remington 45 Colt was.011 and Federal 44 Mag was .012. As for sticking with published load data for the 45, there is such a wide disparity between loading manuals that it makes you wonder if these books are really written by lawyers. Lyman doesn't seem to offer anything that wouldn't be safe in a Colt SAA for instance stating what has been said for decades, that the cases are weak. 45 Colt seems to have similarities in this issue a lot like the 45/70, also dating to 1873, but because of the stronger modern rifles they seemed to have successfully changed with the times. On the 45 Colt side however, outfits like Buffalo Bore really push the envelope and seem to get by with it, perhaps they don't have lawyers, I don't know but it is difficult figuring out where the line of safety is. I suspect it is a little different for every set of variables there is. Any one or two of which gets out of whack wouldn't make that much difference, but the perfect storm could put it over the edge. I prefer to play it safe, but not necessarily Lyman safe. I do want to start loading some warmer loads for my 45 Colts, but have no desire to have a dangerous situation, or even to wear out the gun prematurely..
    1895 45-70 GS, 1894 45 Colt
    Super Blackhawk 44 Mag. Henry 22LR Frontier
    Rossi M-92 454 Casull


    "When I hold you in my arms
    and I feel my finger on your trigger
    I know nobody can do me no harm"..

    JM, RIP..

  3. #23
    Contributing Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Hot Springs, Arkansas
    Posts
    1,171
    Member #
    3057
    Thanked
    342 times
    I haven't had a Marlin in .45 Colt yet, but I did have a Rossi 92 Trapper. I shot up some heavy "Ruger only" loads that I found after I had sold my Ruger Bisley. You can reach impressive power levels with .45 Colt loads in a carbine, especially the heavy 300+ grain loads. The recoil is also very impressive <G>/

    John Taffin has some stout loads listed for the Marlin 1894 in .45 Colt at Make Mine A Marlin

    And a few more in this article Marlin's 1894 Trappers

    More good reading from Paco Kelly 45 Colt In Lever Action Rifles
    eaglesnest likes this.

  4. #24
    Site Contributor Contributing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    SE Alaska
    Posts
    3,537
    Member #
    15636
    Thanked
    996 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Warhawk View Post
    I haven't had a Marlin in .45 Colt yet, but I did have a Rossi 92 Trapper. I shot up some heavy "Ruger only" loads that I found after I had sold my Ruger Bisley. You can reach impressive power levels with .45 Colt loads in a carbine, especially the heavy 300+ grain loads. The recoil is also very impressive <G>/

    John Taffin has some stout loads listed for the Marlin 1894 in .45 Colt at Make Mine A Marlin

    And a few more in this article Marlin's 1894 Trappers

    More good reading from Paco Kelly 45 Colt In Lever Action Rifles
    Reading these articles about 45 Colt being loaded to 44 mag levels why has it been used in the Rossi 92 without the weak 45 Colt brass coming apart?
    1895 45-70 GS, 1894 45 Colt
    Super Blackhawk 44 Mag. Henry 22LR Frontier
    Rossi M-92 454 Casull


    "When I hold you in my arms
    and I feel my finger on your trigger
    I know nobody can do me no harm"..

    JM, RIP..

  5. #25
    Contributing Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Hot Springs, Arkansas
    Posts
    1,171
    Member #
    3057
    Thanked
    342 times
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglesnest View Post
    Reading these articles about 45 Colt being loaded to 44 mag levels why has it been used in the Rossi 92 without the weak 45 Colt brass coming apart?
    I don't know where this "weak brass" myth got started.

  6. #26
    Marlin Marksman
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Cheyenne,Wyoming
    Posts
    1,353
    Member #
    21145
    Thanked
    2748 times
    I've been in the basement loading some .45's this afternoon. While handling the empty cases I noticed some weak cases have indeed come apart. I'd like to add that they did so after what has been at least 15-20 loadings. Some of the cases I'm still shooting are ones purchased when I first started playing with the .45's back in the mid 90's. They have seen loads rated to 30,000 CUP. I really don't know how many times I've actually reloaded them, but for the life of me. They don't seem weak to me. Not with the number of times I've loaded them. I'm a firm believer that John Linebaugh has researched and tested enough guns that the .45 is safe to 30,000 CUP in a Ruger Blackhawk. Note the the .44 is loaded to about 42,000CUP. Also it is my understanding that the early 454 research was with a .45 case and duplex loads that ran somewhere around 50,000CUP. Whether this is true or not, I'm not concerned with. What does concern me is safe loads. I can see no real world difference between a .44 case and a .45 case. The gun is what really needs to be considered. A Blackhawk is stronger than a Peacemaker and it's clones. It's my understanding that a model 92 is stronger than a 1894 Marlin. Why not load appropiately for the gun. My Blackhawks have digested thousands of pretty stiff loads. I deem them safe for that reason. My .45 load data was originally from John Linebaugh (designer of the .475 Linebaugh and custom gun maker). Today some of the manuals show similar recipes as John's. As stated previously, the case is little more than a convenient way of holding components together and then serves as a gasket. It puzzles me that we are discussing the strength of the case in the first place. If you reload and at least research what you're doing, the .45 is a tremendous cartridge. If you don't reload, it's probably best to stick with a .44 if you need that kind of power level.
    eaglesnest and dpe.ahoy like this.
    Wyoming Dinger Ringer Association, emeritus Billy Dixon
    #304-1895STBL/.45-70
    #60-1894/.45 Colt

  7. #27
    Sidewinder
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    the wild wild southwest
    Posts
    248
    Member #
    3629
    Thanked
    16 times
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglesnest View Post
    Reading these articles about 45 Colt being loaded to 44 mag levels why has it been used in the Rossi 92 without the weak 45 Colt brass coming apart?
    Maybe because it is a '92 and has the parallel locking bars on either side of the bolt to make the action a bit stronger. The '94 has the big locking lug in the rear of the bolt but between there and the breech all there is is the single groove holding the bolt in place. That'd be my only take on the matter. Other than that I don't know.
    Tyranny is always better organized than freedom - THOMAS PAINE

  8. #28
    Sidewinder
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    the wild wild southwest
    Posts
    248
    Member #
    3629
    Thanked
    16 times
    Quote Originally Posted by stevewhr View Post
    ..... This being my personal opinion and worth exactly what you paid for it...Steve.
    Good one! And funny too.
    Tyranny is always better organized than freedom - THOMAS PAINE

  9. #29
    Gun Wizard
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Checotah, Oklahoma
    Posts
    2,474
    Member #
    2633
    Thanked
    976 times
    I don't know where this "weak brass" myth got started.
    It started many moons ago when the 45 Colt was loaded in the old balloon head cartridges. Modern 45 Colt cartridges are just as strong as any other cartridge.

    As to comments by some that the 45 Colt can be loaded to the 44 magnum levels........what they are talking about is performance, not pressure levels. No one in their right mind would try to run the 45 Colt with 44 magnum pressure. However, when loaded at the top end of 30,000+ cup, the 45 Colt with it's larger case capacity, it's larger diameter and heavier bullet will equal and often exceed the performance of the 44 magnum in the field and on heavy game and do it with far less pressure.
    eaglesnest and dpe.ahoy like this.

  10. #30
    Distinguished Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Billings, MT
    Posts
    6,480
    Member #
    5856
    Thanked
    5049 times
    Quote Originally Posted by leverbros View Post
    So you're saying that the Marlin 94 in .45 Colt should not be loaded hotter than a cartridge that a Ruger Blackhawk of the same caliber could take? I always figured the Marlin action was pretty tough but maybe it's not. I too would like to load some stiff rounds for my Marlin 94 .45 Colt but maybe I need to hold off until I learn some more about it. What does that say for the .44 mag cartridge in the same rifle? Aren't those factory rounds loaded much hotter than the .45 Colt (they both have the same action)?
    I figure the Marlin action is pretty tough, it's loaded for the 44 mag, but the 45 is a bigger hole in the barrel where the threads are. Ruger/TC level loads are quite potent in a revolver and even more so out of a rifle barrel. With the right bullet you could take any game in the lower 48 using it. The 92 action is stronger, that doesn't mean the Marlin 94 is weak, just not as stout as the 92. If the 45 loaded to Ruger levels isn't enough for you, consider a Rossi M92 chambered for the 454 Casull. I'm getting old fast enough, I don't want to start losing parts of my face because I thought the rifle I was using was strong enough to hold pressure it was not designed to contain. DP
    TEAM 444 #187, Team 35 #7, Two Marlin 1894Cs, Remlin 1894C, 1894-44mag, 1952 Marlin 30-30, 1966 Texan 30-30. Glenfield 36G & two 30A's 30-30, 30-30 XLR, , five- 35rem. 1951 SC, 1952 SC, 1957, 1975 and 2008, 38-55 CB, M-375, 308 MX, 338MXLR, 444P, 444SS, , XS-7 22-250, XS-7 7mm-08 AI,


Home | Forum | Active Topics | What's New | Subscribed Threads

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Similar Threads

  1. Marlin 1894 .45 colt
    By Lil Bear in forum 1894
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-17-2012, 09:25 PM
  2. 1894 Marlin in 45 Colt ?
    By GAR in forum 1894
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 09-22-2011, 03:34 AM
  3. First full batch of 45 Colt Reloads
    By 1895Gunner in forum Reloading
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 08-19-2011, 03:21 PM
  4. WTB: Marlin 1894 in 45 Colt
    By buttstock in forum 1894
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 05-27-2011, 06:38 AM
  5. Cartridge OAL for Marlin 1894 45 Colt?
    By Wet Dog in forum 1894
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-16-2007, 08:41 PM

Search tags for this page

45colt p load data accurate 5744 powder
,
accurate arms 5744 in .45 colt rifle
,
colt 1894 replica
,
loading for a marlin 1894 45 colt
,
marlin 1894 .45 colt reload to 44 velocity
,

marlin 1894 45 colt

,
marlin 1894 45 colt load data
,

marlin 45 colt

,

marlin 45 colt rifle reloading

,
marlin 45 colt strength
,

reload data for 5744 powder

,
reloading 45 colt marlin
,
xmp 5744 reloading data 45 colt
Click on a term to search for related topics.